Down With All the Scab Talk!
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 at 12:01AM I have a confession: I love seeing bands in their original format. You know, watching the men and women perform live the songs I love. I also realize life happens and band members change. Life happens.
Here's the thing: it's become popular among metal fans to throw the term "scab" around like it's nothing. I never gave it much thought until over the weekend when some people - who I won't name because that's totally classless - started throwing jabs at a band I love. The band has one replacement member. And he's a sweet man and very talented. I'm sure in that situation one is the loneliest number and all that but whatever. If one member leaves that shouldn't end a band and the livelihood of the remaining members, should it?
Can you imagine staying at the same job for oh, I don't know, 20 or 30 years? My dad has been with his employer for nearly four decades. Yeah, you read that right. That's a rarity and his generation will likely be the last to claim such distinctions. People my age and younger change jobs a lot because we have to - otherwise we'll never make more money or get any varied experience. Now, think about the things about your job that annoy you. I'm very lucky to have finally found a job I really enjoy and where I fit. Getting there wasn't easy. Along the way I made some wonderful friends - some of my best friends - at those jobs that didn't work out. You know what? I also had some really lousy experiences and met some people that didn't gel with me very well. I bet you've been there and done that.
The thing about bands is that the idea of forming a musical act is all very romantic. Let's "go out and tackle the world! Be inventive. Change the face of music!"
Well, okay. Some bands get there. What's the Puff Daddy song? "Mo' Money, Mo' problems?" Imagine being stuck in a job where you don't fit - where you despise your coworkers - for a couple decades. Only you have to live with them 24/7 because the way you make your living is on tour.
"Who cares?" You say. "The musicians just need to shut up, get on stage and get a paycheck." Perhaps. Or perhaps that's inhumane and an unfair expectation.
So a member (or three) quits and the band carries on. Sometimes it seems a little silly when there's only one original member of a band still out touring under the brand name. It's not quite as inane when only one guy (or gal) has dropped out. The fact is, music is a very cyclical business. Musicians are creative folk, remember. They don't like to be boxed in and they go as the wind blows. One too many fights and you'll likely see an exit stage left.
Maybe it's time for us to accept it and move on. Maybe bands aren't meant to stay together unchanged forever. Now you're thinking "Sure, Allyson can say that but her favorite band is Aerosmith and they are all back together."
Well, perhaps. With Aerosmith these days, you never know. And remember, Aerosmith had plenty of lineup issues in the past and simply realized they were worth more money together than apart. So they grit their teeth, play together, have some public battles and move on. But, they are rare. They are one of those legendary "arena acts" and everyone knows Aerosmith. Even non-rock fans know the name Aerosmith just as they know the Rolling Stones and AC/DC. It's the smaller bands we love like, say, Britny Fox or Bang Tango or LA Guns that really suffer from the "scab X sucks!" syndrome. Complaining likely won't make the departed member return and it's pretty hurtful to the replacement guy, too. I mean, how would you feel if you went to work every day and your boss was constantly comparing you to your predecessor. It would suck right? Now think of that times about a million and you've got the plight of a replacement member in a name band. I'm going to be better about my show reviews regarding replacement members in the future.
So I've rambled my piece. Oh, and KISS have done okay with replacement guys, right? Just sayin.'
Reader Comments (22)
Kiss with makeup and no Ace AND Peter...SCAB. Britny Fox without Dean, Michael Kelly and Johnny Dee...SCAB. I could continue, but why? Well I'll tell you why...
When a band continues WITHOUT a KEY player or playerz, they're doing it for the money and NOT the ART. They're using the BRANDING of the band, which in most cases of glam/hair bands, the BRANDING was what they worked on FIRST. Hence the scab tag, at least in my book.
The bands should just change the name. L.A.Guns another favorite of mine...Phil and Steve, CHANGE the name. Tracii's version, CHANGE the name. Even if it's just SLIGHTLY..."Tracii Guns' L.A.Guns" "L.A. Guns featuring Phil Lewis" "KISS featuring Gene and Paul" Come on, fans nowadays with bands like that aren't fanatical. They may not know that the band changed key members. I may know they changed, YOU may know they changed, but the casual fan from back in the day doesn't UNTIL they handed over their hard earned money and find out their favorite singer singing the tunes they lost their virginity to back in the day isn't singing them. Or their favorite guitarist that they air guitared in their bedroom isn't shredding on stage. It's a rip off to the ticket buyer.
As for our precious Aerosmith...when I saw them back in the "Night in the Ruts" tour, Joe wasn't with them, nor was Brad. I knew Joe was gone, and Brad, not such a "visual" miss onstage, but as a fan...it was the beginning of the end. When "Rock in a Hard Place" tour rolled around..it was pretty much just Steven, even Joey missed the Pittsburgh show. The chemistry was lost and I was seeing Tyler's solo show. While he had some seriously great musicians, it wasn't AEROSMITH. Don't even get me started on Motley (without Vince) or Warrant (at least until Robert came on board-still not Warrant, but killer in concert).
As for ME replacing someone at my job and being compared, its just a little different. It would be SCAB for about a week and then they would say "WHO was that last guy?" hahahahaha
Love ya,
L.
LA Guns...hmmm...I love Jizzy singing Jizzy's music. Loved hearing Blackout in the Red Room this year. I don't like Jizzy so much on the classic LAG. GnR, another hmmm, don't appreciate the incantation currently on the road. However, they are great musicians and great live. I saw GnR in early 1991 and also in like 2004-2005. Both shows were great, a big something was missing the second time. Faster P - WHO CARES, Taime is there, I'm good. AC/DC without Bon Scott...we all gotta be happy about Brian in the band. Different, I know but just sayin. Ratt is ok with their replacements, but really need Warren AND Stephen in that band.
All in all, I'm in overall agreement with Allyson. As long as they rock, sound good, and play for a reasonable price (KISS excepted), I am good!
The term 'scab' seems pretty harsh to me, but people are super-passionate about music and a big part of being into a band is getting to identify with its members. So when guys are switched out, it takes some of the gloss off and I completely understand why a new member isn't immediately embraced. It makes no difference whether the new guy is nice or not -- they automatically start at a disadvantage and need to earn the respect of the fans, which takes time.
That said, I would never pay to see a band perform if all I was going to do is yell at them. Seems like a waste of time, money & energy to me.
A lot of it also has to do with who is being replaced. There are some bands that I've lost complete interest in after they've swapped out guys -- Sammy joining Van Halen & John Corabi joining Crue immediately spring to mind. Then there are other switches that didn't change my love for the band such as Newstead joining Metallica.
In the cases of VH & Crue, their lead singers are a huge part of the band's identity, so it's impossible to make a change without pissing off a large number of hardcore fans. Not to mention in those cases the split was because of infighting within the band, not a tragic accident like in Metallica's case.
As for Guns n' Roses, I consider that band long gone. I do like Chinese Democracy and I saw them on their last tour, but I do not consider them Guns n' Roses. For me, GNR was the band that made Appetite for Destruction, and as soon as Axl started taking too much control and guys starting coming in and out of the band, the magic was gone. I don't feel any resentment towards any past or current in that band except for Axl, who ruined an extremely good thing.
1. Bang Tango Redux
2. Bulletboys (featuring only Mick, Lonnie, and Jimmy)
3. Britny Fox, featuring just the bass player
4. Vixen, featuring just the guitarist
5. L.A. Guns featuring just Tracii
6. Faster Pussycat, the version featuring only Muscat
I understand Allyson's point, but there is the other side of the argument. When one member carries the name of the entire band, then that is a big responsiblity, and if they are not up to the task, it is a disappointment and a ripoff to the fans. The best example I can think of are a few of the "package tours" that occurred over the past few years when, in fact, it was the same "band" for all three acts and just the singer would change.
You can change members of KISS, but the show still remains the same. KISS is a visual specticle and not totally about the music. But when you have FP with just Muscat, or you have Vixen with just Jan....really what is the point. They don't have the big stage show, so it is just music. I understand that these people did establish the brand names that they are associated with, and they own the rights to use the name as they best see fit, and they need to make a living, but to me, often times it seem disingenious and the fans are the ones that suffer, and ultimately, they will damagae the value of the band name by continuing to market themselves as something they are not.
Perfect example: Marq Torien gets 70% of what the Bulletboys make on a show. 70%! His SCABS get 10% each. Marq will NEVER agree to take Lonnie, Mick, and Jimmy back and go down to only making 25%. Not to mention Lonnie, Mick, and Jimmy with a new singer, while even with 3 original members instead of 1, will ALWAYS be the OTHER Bulletboys. Its a business people, and these guys arent getting any younger. So theyre taking what they can get.
Face it, when it comes to most bands, especially 80's hair metal bands, the singer is the single most important piece. Youre in denial if you dont agree.
And I disagree, it's Tracii's name on the door... He get's to use it in it's purest form. Of course, he could always just name the band Tracii Guns, since his name has the most recognition in Rock and Roll of all the original members, Phil included.
Phil... sorry, you're damned to Phil Lewis & L.A. Guns scab status, no matter how hard you try, no matter how much of a crack band you put together. Love Kweens and the rest of the boyz, but it just ain't Guns without Guns.
On the general subject at hand, which I think is a good one, Al, you mention being disheartened by negative comments about a newer replacement member of a band bing unjustly labeled as a "scab" when he's "such a sweet guy."
Honestly, I don't like the word "scab" either. I think it's better to think about performers who have joined bands as bringing a band into a new phase.
Sometimes it works better with singers. The problem with most of our beloved 80's Glam Metal bands is so many of them don't write new material, or it takes them forever to do it.
The perfect example of a band with a revolving door policy for it's membership, yet still more than survived with tremendous success is Deep Purple.
Deep Purple, in it's original form with Ian Gillan on vocals and their notorious leader, Ritchie Blackmore, had a mega classic album hit with "Machine Head" and it's iconic "Smoke On The Water", which contains the most memorable guitar riff in modern Rock'n'Roll History.
Then Gillan quit/got thrown out due to creative differences with the bands resident crazy man and fearless leader, Blackmore.
Enter David Coverdale, another helluva singer, and they are onto more album hits like Burn, etc.
Then Coverdale exits eventually Joe Lynn Turner enters the picture. And all of this during Blackmore's forming and reforming of Rainbow with it's sea of vocalists doing stints from Ronnie James Dio to Joe Lynn Turner to Graham Bonnet.
And then Dio had successful stints in Black Sabbath when Ozzy checked out (er...um... split for a while) and Coverdale went on to mega-platininum success with Whitesnake. And Graham Bonnet went on to form Alcatraz, etc., etc...
But what's different about all of these versions of bands vs. the versions of so many bands today?...
Quite simply, Creative Output. The Metal Godz only know how many Metal classics were generated by the collective output of all these Metal God status performers.
That's the difference. These bands kept producing whether it was Deep Purple Mark I, II, III, or IV. Aside from Machine Head and all it's groundbreaking content, you'd be hard pressed to decide which stuff is better than the other.
That's why you don't really think of Deep Purple as a "Scab" band, well, except for maybe now since Lord, Paice and Blackmore are out of it.
But it took them decades longer than our more immediate heroes to achieve this distinction. And that's because each permutation of the band, albeit some to a lesser degree than others, contributed new heavily rotated FM Radio and MTV fodder.
Our 80's heroes in their second and third or even fourth versions get "scab" status because they never attempt to top what it's predecessors achieved.
They simply subsist on rehashing the old hits and hitting the Legacy Act circuit, or in the case of L.A. Guns, their new material is nothing more than some cover songs, granted sometimes doing some interesting ones like "Cry Little Sister", from the cult classic film, "The Lost Boys".
As far as Kiss with Thayer and Singer, I accept that as legit and not scab, again as Thayer contributed songs to their latest effort, the Walmart exclusive, "Sonic Boom".
Plus Thayer is no slouch, either, the way SOME other replacement guitarists could be perceived.
In a perfect world, bands would stay together, and everybody would get along. It doesn't always happen that way, and I don't let it bother me to the extent that I start calling players trying to make a living "scabs."
A Faster Pussycat version with only Muscat doesn't exist. He's in Sin City Sinners.
He did tour as F P a couple of years ago but even then he brought Eric Stacy with him.
While true in the sense that Ian Gillan is seen as the most popular of the DP revolving door...it was Rod Evans who was the ORIGINAL vocalist for DP Mark I. It was Rod who sang their first hit "Hush"
On a side note with bands having 2 forms...Rod went and brought out Deep Purple and ended up causing a RIOT when people found out Blackmore and Gillen weren't in THAT particular band. Evans ended up getting sued by the "real"/"legal" DP and lost all of his future earnings on the records he DID sing on.
THUS proving...Tracii is RIGHT! hahahahaha
Lou.
And I've got the picture sleeve 45 of "Hush" from '68 in my collection! And I've got the Gotthard version of "Hush" right after Priest's "Turbo Lover" on my iTunes Playlist titled, "Heavy Roxx".
Yet still, I space out and also, I do so appreciate the factual details you have provided us with the ultimate "Scab" band.
And though your facts may vindicate Tracii, still Tracii has not delivered any significant new material to really justify owning the name L.A. Guns.
That said, it is his name on the door and he IS the leader. And he's one of the baddest geetar slingerz I've ever witnessed. Too band he and Phil can't work it out.
Look, Al, I get it that you don't appreciate me sayin' anything negative about Blades. I'll give them this. Phil's Guns deliver a very solid pro show. But that's my main beef. Apart from Kweens goin' apesh*t with his high jumpin' high falutin' silver platform shoed and black belled high wire act, it's probably all still a little too tame.
And that's because of the fact that... now this is just my theory... Phil doesn't want to be outshined by the guitarist. For all we know, Blades could go as nuts as Kweens or Tracii but Phil doesn't want it.
Blades probably wants to avoid the fate of all of the Black Crowes lead guitarists. Rich Robinson can't handle being shown up by their hired guns and subsequently there's a reason their shows get more and more boring. He fires 'em.
It's documented and I even believe his brother Chris has aknowledged it, Chris Robinson is a horse's a*s with self-confidence issues.
They tanked when they fired their first guitarist, at least from a critical point of view. This guy, forget his name and too lazy to Google, was a monster and I saw it with my own two eyes when they opened for Junkyard back in the day at the Cat Club NYC. I think I reading fairly recently, that he still is a monster somewhere.
And Chris Robinson is a pouting fool. What it's not enuff to write the songs or know which ones to cover and be the band "leader". Ya gotta get weird about your guitarist hoggin' the spotlight.
Man, come on, it's the formula. So, Phil, let the leash out on Blades. He and Kweens could scrape guitar necks, the works!
Maybe you could give Kweens a couple extra bux to show how it's done to the rest of the band and one member in particular who shall remain nameless for my fear of retaliation from known and semi-unknown sources.
Or just get Guns back.
p.s. Hey, Nigel, I'm glad you don't post complaining endlessly. More room for me to p*ss people like you off with truthful observations. Say, "Hi" to the other ostrich heads down below, sonny. If you'll note, by the way, I don't really use the word "scab". Maybe in a sarcastic way or in a shorthand way in response to someone who uses the term. In fact, some of these bands running around lately are so "scabbed out", I don't even bother writing about them or respond to posts on them... Yes, you may notice occasionally, and I mean, OCCASIONALLY, I don't comment. Either I'm too lazy or busy or not well enuff versed in the subject (however, the latter I haven't yet let interfere with my smart-ass and unqualified observations as you all may have noticed)... Hey, look, I'm sorry if I offended anyone or anyone's friend, but it gets me going when political correctness trumps truth. Remember, there's always someone out there who's better than you. I figured that out a long time ago. So, in this case, it's Tracii, sorry. It kinda reminds me of when I worked on Madison Avenue. I had a boss who was the nicest guy but did the most boring ads. I could learn nothing from him. Then there was a guy who was a total and complete PR*CK but the guy was a genius. I put up with his torture because from him I could learn great things about art, culture and the tricks of the trade! Do you get it?! Dio went through it with Blackmore and said as much in interviews. Blackmore was a pr*ck to work with/for but he also admired Dio, It lasted for awhile and during that time they put out some killer stuff. Dio put up with Blackmore's BS and look what he got out of it. Take a lesson, Phil... I think I need a Permanent Vacation (hate that song and album!) and I bet you all will agree... Bon Voyagee!!!
LA Guns...Hmmm...there's a screwed up mess....I would have to consider Tracii's version a Scab band. When he was with Phil (and even when he had the other singers), I didn't consider it a Scab band because Kelley and Mick were out of the business (and pretty much Phil was somewhat out of the business too, except when he did the Liberators with Brent Muscat). Having an LA Guns with a few replacements was the next best thing to having no LA Guns.
However, Tracii was the one who left LA Guns even though he kept the band alive for all those years. It was his decision and his decision alone. He could step right back in tomorrow and vindicate himself. He left the band to the Brides. Brides of Destruction was really cool, but it wasn't worth leaving your band for. Brides should have been a side project because Traii had to have known that at some point Nikki would go back to doing the Crue. Brides with Nikki in the short term was a good deal for packing decent sized venues....Brides without Nikki and you're playing shitty clubs with 50 people there, driving a shitty van and pulling a UHaul behind because the main draw of the Brides was Nikki. No offense Tracii, but that's how the general public viewed the Brides.
What Tracii needs to do is change the name of his band and forge their own identity even though LA Guns is his brand name and he has every right to use it. The general public isn't interested in him doing LA Guns unless it's with Phil. Learn from your lessons Tracii. Remember "American Hardcore"?....That would have been great under a different band name. His band now would be better off NOT using the LA Guns name and sticking to doing only MAYBE 1 or 2 old LA Guns songs in the setlist. In reality, I don't think anyone is really interested in hearing Jizzy sing those old LA Guns songs. I could be wrong but I think Tracii's version of LAG should be concentrating on a setlist heavy on Shrinking Violet (again..should have been a different band name when that was originally done) songs and throw in 2/3 Love/Hate or LA Guns standards.
I get the feeling that the 2 LA Guns want to use the band name to get a "red carpet handshake" to get their names or foot in the door with the fans and/or club owners. At any rate, the ones who lose out in the end are the hardcore fans who look forward to new music. Most of these bands that utilize Scabs seem like they aren't too eager to release new material and just stick to the memory lane circuit unfortunately. That's where they lose me as a fan.
Do we have a Council of the Cauldron tonight boyz or are you out watchin' a cover band with a couple of local "scabs" filling in for a couple of their original scab members who were too hung over to play.
Hey, Long Haired Unrocker, WE are the AUDIENCE payin' the MONEY these clowns keep resuscitating themselves for all the while with seasoned pro scabs to lean on.
And though I was in a band for like 5 minutes, that's not why I can have an actual opinion.
I can have an opinion because I'm capable of having one, ya yutz!
p.s. Kenny O. You checked out Sweet Lips, "X0X0" yet, bro? You'll love it, if you haven't. Check it out!
I guess if you had the same type of problem with your job maybe you'd understand but I have this feeling people understanding and putting this into a perspective that they can understand will never happen. Sometimes you have to fire someone becuase they have a serious problem. Most people won't fix their problem so you have no choice but to go on without them. Some people just get sick and tired of touring. Some people miss their families or they make better money doing something else.
I personally believe that some people tour and write new music because they just love it so much that they can't see themselves doing anything else. Take into account that these bands don't have huge exposure anymore and they have a good chance of not making the money back from recording their cd. So touring is the only place they can make back the money they spent recording the cd. I also think that you have to look at what got a musician into music in the first place. If a guy gets into a band just to be cool and get laid he's never going to last. When times get tough they bail. If you get into music because of your pure love for playing music live you'll sacrific things just for the chance to perform live even if it means playing with "scabs" and no matter how many "scabs" are in a band some people just love the music..... and to the musicians that love of the music is what it's all about.
Lastly, the average guy I've met on the road have no clue who's even in a band. I can't tell you how many times I've been at a concert and had someone ask me who's the guy singing for Skid Row or who's the guy with Warrant. So I've learned it's just a few die hards that really care about the band and know all of the in's and out's and we appreciate you more than you will ever understand but as I said earlier we have feelings and we don't like people telling us what we should do what you guys think we should do because your a die hard fan. If you understood how hard it is to do this for a living maybe you'd be a bit nicer to the people in the bands you love.
-fletch 8/15/10