Wednesday
Apr122023
Nailed It
Wednesday, April 12, 2023 at 10:36AM
To the cartoon: I mean, basically, yeah.
In a world where so few people agree on much of anything anymore, the whole Motley Crue and Mick Mars lawsuit debacle has pretty clear cut lines of fans being on one side versus the other. This was just too good and I had to share.
tagged Mick Mars, Motley Crue
Mick Mars, Motley Crue
Reader Comments (18)
Btw wonder when we will see a piece on here about all the allegations of Steven Tyler having relations with a 16 yr old?
Bob and weave, Bob and weave, bk.
Tyler did admit to being a youth-chaser in his book. Old news, right, Bkallday? But then he launched one of the most oddly tossed-about defenses to said crimes in recent history. I guess I should have been a lawyer to the stars. When you can just grab a bunch of legal notions and hope one of them will stick, well, you certainly paint yourself into a corner . . . at what cost per hour?
Slight correction though: he got the parents to give him guardianship rights. Cool, huh? That gave him the ability to take her across state lines to, well, um, hmm, read the book (his book). Thing is, times have changed. Mores have changed. What hasn't changed is the idea of inter-state crimes related to sex, particularly sex with a person deemed a minor.
Yes, the new law in California opened up a hornet's nest of problems for now-old codgers who once dabbled in a bit of the fun times. And.yes, some can respectfully question the timing of this lawsuit. What can't be questioned is that, for some of those women/girls, those fun times scarred them for life. So what be the scale of justice that tilts in their favor? In Tyler's case, I suspect he hopes people chalk it up to 'it was different then'. Well, I hate to inform him that 'it is different now', whether you, me, or the light pole like it.
In on-topic news: that cartoon has it right. That said, and related to the above digression (not started by me/Him), the court of public opinion has no standing in all of this. And, to be fair, the MC side is trying to mount a counter to Mars that is, well, sorta' weak (again, see my Bun E. Carlos comments from last week). But give those MC guys credit. They are going out on top, again. And it never hurts to stick it to a guy with a chronic disease. I mean, if they win then Mars is really, really a scumbag, right? Said no one ever.
Red not. Red not. Not on top, we aren't that hot.
Back to the cartoon. I think I read yesterday where there was an agreement that all of the Crue signed in 2008 that stated if your not touring you lose your claim to the brand. So Mick maybe should have taken the 7.5% and rode off into the sunset.
The lawyers are the only one who win in a divorce. I again do feel for Mick and the agreement mentioned above points to the theory that there is more to the story. We as fans have our view and often we don't really see it through the band members lens. But it is a decent argument to watch and talk about while the world falls apart - nice distraction I guess.
And, bkallday, who are these haters of which you speak? I don't see any on this forum. I think everyone here loves MC. So, again, you are playing shuffleboard with yourself. And guess what? You win again! It also the case that you brought up a fair point about Tyler. So we are discussing it. Case in point . . .
. . . to both you and Shaun, the Tyler situation is both a symptom of our times and of times long since past. Shawn, you wrote: "You made me think about what was acceptable in the 50's/60's/70's and even the 80"s that are now unacceptable. Most musicians were absolutely enamored with underage girls." I agree with all of that (well, maybe not the "most" part). But I have to ask: do you think the revised California law is wrong? And/or do you think that odd fascination with underage girls was okay then? Not trying to set you up here. Just asking. Because you are right: people like Nugent, and Page (even Plant), must be breathing old sighs of labored relief.
And, again, Tyler's defense is so comical as to suggest that even he knows what he did back then--whether it was given a pass or not--was not really great. I mean, is this Gary Glitter level gross (a guy that MC recently song-checked)? Maybe not. Maybe yes.
History is replete with instances of cultural standards that were either much more relaxed or much more constrained than the times we now live in. So we always have to be careful of Whig/pathetic fallacy. Even so, it is hard to distance ourselves from, well, ourselves and our perspectives in the here and now. So what I am saying about Tyler is really simple: I think he acted in a gross fashion. I think others did too. Do I give him/them a pass because it was just 'another time'? No, I don't. Then again, I am not a jury. And I recognize that fact.
So, like bkalllday, I do find it odd that there is very little chatter about this topic . . . and even more disconcerting that Perry was announcing yesterday that the band was planning a tour. Whistle while you work, I guess, even while your band is a dysfunctional mess and your singer is an alleged--but not really, given that he has admitted it!--perv who liked jailbait. Okay. I hope everyone buys a ticket. Not.
Also, we both know why the Tyler stuff has been ignored on here.
First, I love the Crue and on this current issue, I'm Switzerland. I understand both sides. Let's face it, it ain't rocket science or Van Halen (giggle), but bk brought up Tyler's felony behavior. I was going to respond by mentioning VN's drunken car crash, but it seemed like grabbing the low hanging fruit.
Instead, bk, what are your thoughts of your beloved musicians, Nikki Sixx and Tommy Lee admitting to raping a fan in the closet of their apartment after a Whiskey show in the early 80's. They detailed it in their autobiographical, The Dirt, and have discussed it in subsequent interviews. Where is California Law (and bk's position) on this behavior?
But continue to swipe at Ally for what she posts (or doesn't post). .
Bahahaha
Thanks for responding. Truly. I don't know if people on here are ignoring Tyler's behavior. I certainly am not. I also don't know if it is actually news until the legal process starts moving forward. Just my two cents. And I met you where you were on this topic. I posted my thoughts. So, I think we are good there.
The MC thing seems to always hit a nerve with you. And, I get it. Bands we love can make us pretty damn passionate. And, as I said, I love MC. Thing is, they have been coasting for years now. Yes, people still pay to see them. Yes, people also ignore some pretty big issues with their legacy (see one of the Fletch-tones point above). My thing is simple: I don't want to see a worn out band that I love(d), hiding behind a bunch of pyrotechnics and backing tracks, esp. at the prices they (well, everyone) are charging these days. And the non-PC aside is a non-starter. Most metal bands are non-PC. Heck, Allyson just posted about WASP!?!? I get it though. You were in the zone. I give that a pass, because I understand what it is like to feel frustrated and also feel like no one, and I mean no one, sees your POV.
I saw MC several times over the years. Once in a small college event center after Lee returned to the band (he did his 'yo, yo, yo' rap shtick which was kinda' annoying). Also saw them with the Hole drummer Samantha Maloney when Lee was out of the band. And also saw them when all the originals were in place. Me? I loved all of those shows. MC were a major part of my youth.
But I wouldn't pay to see them now or buy anything that support them either. Why? Let me be blunt. Lee is an adolescent jerk who has gotten away with far too much. Sixx is a self-aggrandizing d-bag who invents and reinvents himself, his band's history, and acts as though he is the best thing since sliced bread. Neil? You know, bkallday, that I personally stopped bagging on him--and also took some time off from this site--because it was too easy and also a bit too mean. When I comment about him now, I always tend toward the issues of performance and health, and not toward low-hanging fruit. I am sorta' embarrassed at some of my earlier comments about him. They didn't move any needles. They also ignored the obvious: that guy is in pain and people are feeding his problems to his, and his band's (the lesser issue), detriment.
Mars is in a different category, as he is the quiet one who basically let the others vacuum up attention. Will he win his legal battle? Who knows? But he has engendered support because, well, he hasn't acted like the rest of the band . . . at least in public. People tend to like other people who walk the walk, right? Mars has done that. And to think that MC treated Mars unfairly makes people angry, even if they don't know him or them. Is some of this projection the part of fans? Sure. But you have to realize that, when you compare the recent broadsides lobbed by both him and MC, one side looks a lot better. I won't go into the details again, as I wrote about them above.
A final point, bkallday: I am not jealous of MC. If anything, they strike me nowadays as a cautionary tale. Like Faustus, they made a deal. They got big. They lived a life I could never imagine (not even when some of the band members embellished it). They are now in the twilight of their lives, no less their careers. So more deals are made. And fans still show up. And they love it! Good for all of them. But, also, bad for all of them. When you add to the coffers of those who should have, at some point, been made to feel some sense of humility, and never did, you simply perpetuate a lie that goes on living. If that is cool with you, so be it. It ain't with me. Jealous? Farthest thing from it. Hater? Not at all. I just hate to see a band that once made me laugh, and scream, and yell descend to where they are now.
Again, bkallday, thanks for responding. And sorry that I babbled on for so long.
When I called out (and later wrote a letter about) some infamous lady whom I've posted about here and no one would take me seriously. Some know-it-all said to me, "She's a gentle soul who means well". Well, we know how the story turned out. I figured I'd start using the phrase instead. Obviously, you're unimpressed. Trust me, so was I.
And, to this day, I can't figure out (after everything) that noone from mb's camp ever reached out to me to ask how she glaringly missed that fraud. ..just for more understanding and, as mb said to me, learn.
I hope that gentle woman likes where she is and perhaps we can all rally around Nikki and Tommy's victim, but she was a drunk groupie so they're all to blame...right, bk?
And it is a rare thing that I am going to defend Bkallday for a moment. Nothing he wrote in any way suggested he gave a pass to the behavior of certain members of MC. Nothing. That I nodded to what you wrote goes to prove I am willing to be fairly flexible, attempting to see different POVs, even when they are sometimes locked in the amber of whatever else is going on in that person's life. And, Fletch, you seem to have things going on in your life. Moreover, I don't think Bkallday wants (or needs) me to defend him. He can do his own thing, and does. Do we squabble? Sure. Check out this thread. But I don't hold him to a standard which I don't hold for myself. Nor I you, for that matter.
So, Fletch, enough. At least when it comes to bringing me into your fantastical passion plays where people are not who they seem and others are stand-ins for different people. I am Him. MB is MB. You are, when you aren't admitting to posting under other names (which is fine; you do you), Fletch. And this thread was really about holding our idols to account, and judging them based on their actions. Better it stayed that way.
I agree that it was an "accident ", in that VN didn't"mean" or "intend" to kill razzle, but I write this knowing the kind of backlash that I'd get in my profession. I'd hear, "There's nothing accidental about l getting behind the wheel of a car drunk and speeding to a liquor store on wet roads". "He should have been protecting his beloved friend, not endangering him, whether razzle was drunk or sober. He's a murderer who was lucky he was a rockstar who got off easy".
So, I disagree with Him, while you may not have given VN a pass, I think you justify it to a certain extent.. If I'm wrong, enlighten me and explain your comment.
Have a good Sunday everyone.
-A gentle fantastical soul who means well.
Also, Him, hope all is well. But I wasn't trying to say that your disinterest in the band, was due to hating, i was only trying to say that there are plenty of ppl out there that hate on the band, out of nothing but pure and absolute jealousy. Even you can't deny that. And again I'll state for the record, that i'll never get all the hate that these dudes get. That's all.
Fletch, the Razzle thing is tough. Really is. The sad fact is that Neil drove and Razzle died. And trying to spin it this way and that doesn't do anything to help those who miss him (and I include Neil in that group). And Neil is dealing with demons that many of us can't fathom.
I loved MC in my youth. I still listen to them. But I pity some of them now. And, frankly, I am glad I never had to live the lives they led. But that is the price of fame. Me? I get to sit here, slinging nonsense that none of then will ever read (even if some it might, on some occasions, be of value).
Here is the complex part - I m not defending Tyler but in Tyler's case it does feel a little like a money grab. At some point in that situation the young lady went willingly with Tyler and participated willingly but that is a total summation on my point but if she was truly groomed etc then by all means she should have her day in court.
I think the law was changed to support situations where the memories were suppressed and or the victim had no recourse at the time due to fear and intimidation. The law change would allow these victims to come forward and more than likely they were not the only victim of the perpetrator and others would find support to move forward past these traumatic events.
As with any law there is the intent of the law and then how it is actually executed.
Again HIM Thank You for challenging us to THINK instead of just exist!